Ray O'Brien
on Learning as a Leadership Act
Ray O'Brien is never quite sure whether he is a sustainability professional working in education, or an education professional working in sustainability. As Tumuaki / Head of Sustainability at Ōtākou Whakaihu Waka / University of Otago, he has made a career of sitting in that ambiguity, and his research has turned it into a thesis: that how we design learning is itself a form of leadership.
That idea did not arrive in a single flash. It came through a Professional Doctorate that let him dig deeply into why he does what he does, and why he does it the way he does. "That is where the idea that designing learning is a leadership action came from for me," he says. It is a fitting origin for someone who resists the tidy, individual story. Ask him to imagine sustainability as a flower blooming in his life and he pushes back on the whole premise. "I do not think sustainability is an individual thing like a flower - it is probably not that showy," he says. "I think more about lots of tangled and messy plants all working together to become a forest."
The forest is doing real work in that answer. Ray's central frustration is that sustainability is complex and fundamentally human, yet the metrics treated as relevant are simplistic, resource-based KPIs. "Decisions then end up based on what is measurable rather than what matters," he says - a line that could sit above the desk of every practitioner tired of dashboards standing in for meaning.
His response is to meet people where they are rather than reach for alarm. Thinking of students as stakeholders, he questions whether it is even ethical to load that much anxiety onto young shoulders. "Doomsplaining is not going to get cut through," he says. His alternative is sustainability by stealth, folded into something that is, in his words, "cup-filling." As he puts it, "you can have DJs and disco balls at waste reduction events, you know!"
Underpinning the work is Otago's sustainability strategic framework, built around Tī Kōuka, the cabbage tree, and shaped by the mātauraka and pūrākau of Kāi Tahu. Whaia te ara Tī recalls how Tī Kōuka once marked the trail and sustained travellers on a treacherous journey - a metaphor, Ray suggests, for the leadership and governance a real transition will demand. Aotearoa's superpower, he adds, is close at hand: "We have Te Tiriti. If we just respect it and give effect to it, we will succeed."
If his work could plant one seed, it would be a question rather than an answer: how can we shift our system to prioritise long-term futures, rather than working around election cycles? His advice to the next generation of change-makers is quieter but no less urgent. "Sustain yourself first," he says, mindful of how many good people burn out before their impact lands. The counterweight is celebration - even the smallest win.
Read Ray's answers to Blooming Sustainability's full questionnaire, from Paulo Freire to disco balls, and the whakataukī that anchors his practice: Whāia te mātauranga hei oranga mō tātou.
BLOOMING Sustainability Questionnaire
Name: Ray O’Brien
Company & Title: Ōtākou Whakaihu Waka/University of Otago
Website & LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rayobrienlearning/
* Guiding Values | Kaupapa
If sustainability were a flower blooming in your life, what would it look like? What nurtures it?
I don’t think sustainability is an individual thing like a flower, it’s probably not that showy! I think more about lots of tangled and messy plants all working together to become a forest.
A quote, personal motto or whakataukī that reflects your vision:
Whāia te mātauranga hei oranga mō tatou- seek the knowledge for all of our well being.
If you could mentor a rising change-maker in Aotearoa, what advice would you share?
Sustain yourself first- there are too many great people who have burned out and not made the impact they could have- we all miss out then. Key to this is celebrating the even the smallest win.
* Leading Change | Arataki
A key moment in your journey that shaped your path:
It’s not a “moment”, but as milestone I did a Professional Doctorate which allowed me to dig deeply into why I do what I do and why I do it the way I do. It was about my practice and articulating how it all hangs together. That’s were the idea that designing learning is a leadership action came from for me.
What’s the main challenge you face in driving sustainability within your sector?
Sustainability is complex in its nature, and a fundamentally human problem, but more of the metrics that are seen as relevant are simplistic KPIs and based on resources. Decisions then end up based on what is measurable rather than what matters.
An area you need more support with:
We all need to work together if we want a thriving future, but political systems and media are pushing us further apart. We tend to react to each other, rather than listen. I’d love to be better at bridging those gaps.
An Indigenous perspective you admire and want people to be mindful of:
Our sustainability strategic framework is based around Tī Kōuka (the cabbage tree) and is shaped by the mātauraka and pūrākau of Kāi Tahu living on this land. Whaia te ara Tī, refers to how Tī Kōuka was used as a trail marker and to sustain people on a treacherous journey. It’s a great metaphor for the type of leadership and governance we will need to successfully transition to a more sustainable future.
Your best approach for engaging stakeholders in meaningful dialogue about ESG:
There is not a best approach- you need to meet them where they are. Thinking about students as stakeholder, they have enough on their plate right now, so doomsplaining is not going to get cut through, and to be honest I question if it is ethical to put that much anxiety on the shoulders of our young people. So, sustainability by stealth as part of something that is “cup-filling”- you can have DJs and disco balls at waste reduction events your know!
What do you think is Aotearoa’s superpower in creating a sustainable future?
We have Te Tiriti. If we just respect it and GIVE-EFFECT to it we will succeed.
* Surfing the Green Wave | Kakariki
Books, podcasts, courses or other resources that profoundly shaped your approach to sustainability:
Sustainability as I said above is complex and human. Creating change in humans is otherwise known as learning. So, when you think about change through a learning design lens, creating learning is how we can make progress. So anything that Paolo Freire wrote, but Pedagogy of the oppressed take some beating.
It would be great to get some listens for our own podcast Spilling the tī on spotify. https://open.spotify.com/show/6JU0LvyzzWISnoAVp9PorP?si=06ab384805a94e69
Events in Aotearoa or globally that you think are must-attend:
Te Pūnaha Mātatini run The Capital City Complex Systems Symposium in Wellington every couple of years. It’s not strictly a “sustainability” event, it is more about how to grapple with complex problems.
If your work could plant one seed of change for the future, what would it be?
I think most change starts with a question and we learn how to find the answer, so my question is how can we shift our system to priorities long term futures, rather than around election cycles?
* One actionable takeaway for our readers to make a change today for a brighter tomorrow:
Vote! Especially if you are a young person- VOTE and make you opinion count (what ever it is you see is the right way forwards).
